Tiffany D. Jackson

Tiffany D. Jackson: Whenever I think of people who have gone through something, I'm always like, but they were a human before this. Before they were a monster, they were human. Before they were a zombie, they were human.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: What if the real monsters aren't hiding under the bed, but standing in plain sight, smiling wide? They show up in classrooms, courtrooms, homes. They blend in. And for young especially, it can be hard to name what feels wrong when no one else seems to see it. That's where stories, especially horror and thrillers can help.

They offer a safe bubble, a little distance, and a way to confront the truth without being consumed by it. Tiffany d Jackson writes stories that don't flinch. The New York Times bestselling author of Allegedly, The Weight of Blood, Blood in the Water and more. She blends real world horrors with the sharp tension of a thriller. Her work takes on missing black girls, abuse, addiction, and racism all through narrators who feel heartbreakingly real because they are.

Characters drawn from lives too often erased, told with twists, suspense and an emotional punch that lingers long after the last page. In this episode, Tiffany shares how growing up between Brooklyn and Westchester sharpened her view of the world and the people in it. She talks about finding her voice in film school, why stories like Monday's Not Coming are drawn from real life cases, and how fiction is her way of building empathy where the headlines fall short. My name is Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and this is the reading culture. A show where we speak with diverse authors about ways to build a stronger culture of reading in our communities.

We dive deep into their personal experiences and inspirations. Our show is made possible by Beanstack, the leading solution for motivating people to read more. Learn more at beanstack.com, and make sure to check us out on Instagram at the reading culture pod and subscribe to our newsletter for bonus content at the readingculturepod.com forward slash newsletter. Alright. On to the show.

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Okay, Tiffany. We're gonna start in, like, a little different way. I'm gonna read a passage from one of your upcoming books called The Scammer that has really stuck with me ever since I read it, and it feels like this theme that runs through a lot of your work. So here it goes, beginning a quote. Everyone knows that monsters are real.

They don't just live on the outskirts of our imaginations with the Tooth Fairy. What we were never told, never fully explained is how the monsters can roam among us, hidden in plain sight with nice teeth, gorgeous skin, and breathtaking smiles. How they had the power to manipulate, the power to persuade, and the power to siphon the life out of you. Oh, so good. And it's just so powerful.

I think that in particular just made me wonder, to start if there was something that you noticed early on in life, but not everything or everyone is what they seem.

Tiffany D. Jackson: It's funny that you brought up that quote because I do oftentimes feel like one of the things about living in this world is like villains aren't always very clear cut. And sometimes the villain could be your environment. Sometimes the villain could be mother nature. We can see the power mother nature has and the way it just, like, you know, has complete destruction over everyone. So it's not specifically a human, but, like, an entity or a thing.

Unintentional monsters. Right? I feel like I have found some unintentional monsters through just, like, being a kid, just being very curious. Right? Like, I always explain that one of my first experiences of racism happened when I was probably, like, nine years old.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Now what happened?

Tiffany D. Jackson: So I was at a horseback riding camp. God bless my mom, you know, because I said I really wanted to ride horses, and she found this program. And I was the only black girl in there. You know, we had to come all the way from Brooklyn up into the city and to ride these horses. And one of the things everyone knew is that you can't open up the garage door in the track because it would scare the horses.

And I remember being in the track, you know, kinda with my instructor kinda, like, doing my rounds, and someone opened the track door. And the course went crazy, and I truly thought I was going to die. Like, it was bucking. Eventually, it threw me off. And I remember, like, getting up and looking over and seeing, like, a group of white kids, and they all just kinda snickering by the actual, like, garage door opener.

And at first, like, I'm nine years old, so I was kinda like, well, why did they do that? That was so dumb. And it wasn't until much later on at night when I was by myself where I was like, oh, they did that on purpose, and this is why. And it was a very strange feeling for me to be like, oh, like, they don't like me because I'm black. And it may seem so unintentional.

That was a moment where I realized, like, you know, who I am in my skin outside of, like, Brooklyn, outside of, like, you know, my community, like, what people see. And when I say unintentional monsters, it means that when I looked at my teachers to enforce something, they were just like, oh, it was an accident. And I don't think they realized what they did there to, like, a little black girl. And to me, it sort of delved into my mistrust of just teachers in general, like educate like, people who are supposed to be on your side. Like, you can never truly trust the people that you're around unless they're, like, your family, your, like, close friends, and stuff like that.

And I was nine. So then I ended up faking and pretending that, like, I hated horses after that because I knew if I told my mom what exactly happened, she would, like, light the whole place on fire. That's right. I I like Yeah. So I just was like, oh, horses are stupid.

But I actually really loved horses, and I really wanted to keep on doing that. But I knew that if my coach wasn't going to my instructor specifically wasn't going to protect me, and the people around there wasn't gonna protect me, and these kids were just gonna go unchecked Mhmm. That I could honestly like, something could really happen to me. And I had the wherewithal to know that, but it was just so sad because I was nine.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Those kids probably don't I don't know. But probably don't even remember. You know, the the instructor, like, them, that was just a day of somebody opened the Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting because your mom, I'm guessing, was, like, really trying to, like, give you that exposure and let you have access to this Yeah.

Thing if you're growing up in Brooklyn and trying to, in fact, do the opposite. Right?

Tiffany D. Jackson: And those lessons weren't cheap. Right. You know, the time it took, like, you know, to take me on a Saturday after, like, working all day, like, that's that's a lot. And I look back on it now and think, like, you know, even if I did say something to her about it, you know, of course, after she lit the whole place on fire, she probably still would have, like, made me try to, like, do it, but it just wouldn't have been the same to me anymore. It was tainted.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Tiffany spent her early years in Brooklyn, but her family eventually moved to Westchester, a quiet suburb just outside the city. And even there, the monsters continued to make themselves known.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I ended up being one of the maybe four or five black kids in my entire high school, and that was pretty tough. Like, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It was really a bizarre experience because I went from having such, like, a huge community and being one of dozens Mhmm. You know, and a very diverse community in Brooklyn, I should add, to then constantly having this microaggressions, just waves of microaggressions throughout my entire high school career, and I hated it so much. Hated every moment.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Did your parents try and move there to, like, good schools for, like, quote good school, or is that the idea was, like, moving for you to be or were they moved there for a different reason? Or were they moving there for you to go to high school there?

Tiffany D. Jackson: Honestly, the logic, which, you know, it does sound logical when you put it together, but, you know, they wanted me to go to a good school. And a lot of the good schools in Brooklyn specifically were private schools. And the money it was gonna cost, my my dad was like, we might as well move, buy a home, and let her go to the public school in a good community. Mhmm. Not realizing the sort of, like, detrimental effects of going into these good neighborhoods, these good communities could actually have.

And I have never talked to any person of color who's had a good experience at that high school. So, yes, we got a home. We moved out of Brooklyn. We had a home, and it was amazing because it was a home with, like, you know, stairs. I've always wanted a house with stairs because I, you know, I I lived in apartments for my So entire it was just amazing to just have a house with stairs, like things you see in movies

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany D. Jackson: To them being like, oh, this is a nightmare. You know, take us back to the projects. Like, I would rather do that than live in a nice neighborhood.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Must've been so hard. Did you end up making friends or, you know, some friends at the new school, or did you mostly keep to yourself?

Tiffany D. Jackson: So I did have some friends, of course, a couple of other black kids that were in the school. But I, like, definitely, for the most part, stayed to myself because I realized, like, I just felt like I wasn't supposed to be here and that every, like, waking moment was towards, like, getting myself out of this situation, out of Westchester. So a lot of times, I was, like, in the house reading or writing or working on something that would eventually, like, help me get out. So, like, I had the wherewithal to know that, like, you know, this isn't, like, a final destination. And if I, like, stay in the situation, if I pay attention to it too much, I could get stuck here, and I don't wanna be here.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: To have that foresight as a kid, you know, as a high schooler, it's wild. And then I guess, like, hearing about your childhood about especially that move to Westchester, do you think that experience is a kind of where some of the darker, like, more complicated themes in your books originate from? Like, does that or I don't know. Maybe that traces back to earlier in Brooklyn.

Tiffany D. Jackson: People are always like, you know, what happened to you? I think that there have been moments where you know, New York in the nineties, eighties and nineties were was incredibly scary. There were a lot of scary moments, a lot of drugs that, you know, infiltrated people's families and stuff like that. And there was a lot of time that people were walking around the streets looking like zombies. And as a kid, you're processing that because you don't know what's going on with them, and you're just like, you know, these are crazy bad people.

But then at one point, I started to go to AA meetings because, you know, there were no babysitters around, and so I was sort of, you know, I was in AA meetings with, you know, some of the adults in my family. So there were times where I had been, you know, in meetings in the back of the room, and I'm listening to stories and listening and understanding that, you know, oh, wait. These aren't zombies. These are human beings. These are people that are, like, are in my family, and they all have stories of how they even got there.

And so I think, ultimately, it made me humanize people. And I ultimately think of that like, whenever I think of people who have gone through something, I'm always like, but they were a human before this. Before they were a monster, they were human. Before they were a zombie, they were human. And so that to me, I guess, in a lot of ways, has affected the way I wanted to tell stories and how people like me kind of deal with those family members for whatever reason, and however it happened.

But yeah, that is kind of like, when people are like, what happened to you? I'm like, nothing happened to me actually. I was just watching.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yes. And paying attention.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I was paying attention. Yeah. Mhmm. Nothing actually happened to me. I had a very good childhood.

Obviously, there's bumps in the roads and that's just the nature of things.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah.

Tiffany D. Jackson: But I paid attention to my surroundings.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: It's so interesting to me that your parents, they left that for their obvious reasons, you know, to try and thinking that that was like the

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Thing, but then to just it's just the irony of that.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I think that's like one of the key things about my parents is that they never hid things from me, but they definitely didn't let me be like a whole part of it either.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah.

Tiffany D. Jackson: And I think ultimately that makes me a better person for it because I never like shy away from like, you know, homeless person on like, you know, subway and stuff like that because there's a reason that they're here.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Was there like a a safe harbor for you? Was writing your safe harbor? Like, what was your

Tiffany D. Jackson: Oh, yeah. Writing was definitely my safe harbor. And you know what? Even though I hated going to this school, I think it did everything for my writing career because I sort of went inward and was writing and focused on just honestly, I just focused on getting out. So I specifically remember, and my mother still has it, during my freshman year in high school, I wrote, like, a book by hand.

It was eight five subject notebooks. What? Yes. All written in pencil, double spaced. Like, I was, like, you know because I didn't have a computer, and I wrote this whole, like, assassin story.

Damn. And I got a d in the class, and my mother will never let me forget it because I didn't pay attention to the class because I was working on this novel.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: And were you also a reader or was write I mean, do those go hand in hand for you?

Tiffany D. Jackson: I was definitely a reader. I was definitely the person who because I grew up mostly reading, Earl Stein and, like, Christopher Pike. I was just reading all, like, these scary novels, and then I went sort of kind of straight to Stephen King and straight to, like, the Mary Higgins Clark and Toni Morrison, Maya Angelou, and, Terry McMillan. And that's one of the bigger reasons why I do write thrillers today is because I was reading all these thrillers and horror at, like, you know, age 11 and 12. Because after I, like, you know, went through all of basically Aarl Stein's catalog, there was really nothing for me.

I had to go straight to adult at that point. Mhmm. And I wish there was more of a bridge. Yeah. And that's been, like, my defining point in my career is to make sure that I, like, have that bridge for, like because I know there's a bunch of mes out there.

Like, I know there was a bunch of, like, little black girls and black boys

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Who were reading horror, reading thrillers, and just sort of jumping straight into adults. And, like, it was the only kind of stories that had, like, that angst and that suspense Yeah. That could really keep my attention. I do feel that most of my books will always be that, like, gap. Like, to fill that gap that we probably have always had, just no one noticed it.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah. You're definitely filling that gap now. Especially since you're writing more more middle grade. Right? Okay.

So those are some of the authors that you are drawn to. And what about any, like are there any characters specifically?

Tiffany D. Jackson: I often think about the character in the coldest winter ever, which is winter. That was a very raw and gritty book. I didn't read that till college.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Side note, the coldest winter ever was a 1999 bestseller by activist Sister Solja, a bleak coming of age story about a wealthy drug dealer's daughter.

Tiffany D. Jackson: But what was fascinating to me about this story was the lesson that was really involved. It was very much a warning, and I don't think people picked up on that. There's a lot of people who, like, loved it because it was Rhydian gras and it's, like, you know, what they call it, an urban fiction tale.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany D. Jackson: But there were so many lessons layered into it. And even the author, Sister Soldier, like, writing herself into the novel Yeah. And really giving, like, powerful speeches, like, full on speeches in the novel. She is really laying a foundation of a warning that there was no heroine in this story. There was no one that was supposed to, like, make it to the end, like, you know, get what they actually want.

This was all supposed to be a warning of how society has placed these type of pressures and unfortunate circumstances, not only on black people, but specifically on black girls. And I often think about her as a character because I I think, like I said, I think the book gets a lot of it has a urban legend behind it in a way.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: It's interesting because it was like I feel like because of the grittiness or whatever, like, you're right. That was like the appeal or like the Yes. Wow or whatever you wanna call that of it was that as opposed to the message of the book maybe.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yeah. It was a very layered story. Mhmm. A very culturally significant story, especially for people who grew up in environments like winter because I could see it all. It's almost like a movie I've already seen, but it's being painted in a different light that I can actually see the elements and how something like this could happen.

Like, lot of times when you live in these type of environments, you're seeing the end of a story versus this book really showed you the prequel.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: During her time at Howard, Tiffany went to the sister to sister tour and saw a sister soldier speak on stage. She was the first author Tiffany ever met, and their meeting suddenly and unexpectedly became a life changing moment.

Tiffany D. Jackson: She just blew my mind in terms of, like, how she, you know, she was so prolific and profound, everything that she was saying. And I just was like, I stood online to get her book and have it signed. And keep in mind, I was a filmmaker at the time. I was a film major. This is, like, second semester of my freshman year, and I walk up to her and I said, I wanna be a writer too.

And I was like, where did that come from?

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Oh, it just came out of

Tiffany D. Jackson: you. I've never told anyone that. Their words just came out of me. And she was like, oh, okay. And she wrote a beautiful message in the book to basically like, you know

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: What to say?

Tiffany D. Jackson: I think it says something along the lines of like, know, follow your dreams, you know, let me know when you're ready to talk. And she put her phone number in the book. And I think that's probably changed my perspective in terms of like how I wanna be an author, how I wanna author in life, how I wanna, like, present myself to kids.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Can you say a little more about that? Like, do mean more be more accessible? Is that sort of what you mean? Or be

Tiffany D. Jackson: Definitely be more accessible. Be more, you know, open to going to school visits because I do school visits all over the country. If I had known that there was authors like her in the world, I probably wouldn't have been so afraid to go after my own dream. But I think I go specifically and talk to kids, and I especially in, you know, black communities because I want black kids to see that you can this is an achievable dream, that you don't have to completely change who you are to be what you want to be. She was broken and her pride was gone, so she told those who asked what had happened.

Hooflung had taken her to a shabby room in a shabby house in a shabby street and promised to marry her the next day. They stayed in the room two whole days, then she woke up to find Huflung and her money gone. She got up to stir around and see if she could find him and found herself too worn out to do much. All she found out was that she was too old a vessel for new wine. The next day, hunger had driven her out of her shift.

She had stood on the street and smiled and smiled and then smiled and begged and then just begged. After a week, a world bruising, a young man from a home had come along and seen her. She couldn't tell him how it was. She just told him she got off the train and somebody had stolen her purse. Naturally, he had believed her and taken her home with him to give her some time to rest up a day or two.

Then he had bought her a ticket for home. They put her to bed and sent for her married daughter from up around Ocala to come see about her. The daughter came as soon as she could and took Annie Tyler away to die in peace. She had waited all her life for something and it had killed her when it found her.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Tiffany first read this passage from Zora Neale Hurston's groundbreaking novel, Their Eyes Were Watching God, a classic of the Harlem Renaissance just after high school. She admired Hurston for her fearlessness, a writer who stood at the edges and didn't care what anyone thought. And when Tiffany came across these lines, they hit her like a gut punch.

Tiffany D. Jackson: It was such a heartbreaking story because, like, ultimately, it was just about people just wanting for something more and then being taken away. I feel so much for every character in that novel. You know, there was a happy ending at the end of this novel. And ultimately, don't look at my books and say, like, they should all have happy endings either. You should ultimately feel something.

And I think that above everything else, you should feel more for people than anything else.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yeah. It's beautiful. What you said is beautiful in her writing. But, yeah, that is true. But I I know what you mean about feeling for these people above all else.

Even if there is, yeah. I don't know. You don't know. I wouldn't say happy ending is the word for you. It's not a happy ending for your books.

Tiffany D. Jackson: No. No.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: They're endings. They're endings that have good landings. Your endings have good landings.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yes. Yeah. Because ultimately, I think it's important to remember that not everyone gets a happy ending. And sometimes life doesn't, like, you know, deal you the best deck of cards that it could, but you still have to play, and you still have to be involved, and you still have to grow with it. And that is the ultimate test of resilience.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Tiffany went on to work in film and television and was still at National Geographic when her first two novels, Allegedly and Monday's Not Coming, were published. Both were based on real events and both signaled what would become a defining thread in her work, stories rooted in truth told with urgency and care. Monday's Not Coming was loosely inspired by two real cases, and

Tiffany D. Jackson: I was still working at National Geographic at the time, the Benita Jacks case where she had killed four of her daughters, and they had been missing for, like, three months. And a lot of people don't know that a lot of the attendance protocols across the entire country was due to that case.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Oh, I didn't know that.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Because all these girls were missing. They were aged from, like, I think four to 13. They were all missing from classes and etcetera, but no one was looking for them because no one knew to look for them. And so people were fired left and right. Mayor Fenty was just, at the time, just, like, firing everybody.

Yeah. And all I kept on thinking is, like, you know, how do kids just go missing? Like, how do girls just go missing?

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: That just, like, speaks to the idea of, like, just the monster. I think for kids, especially, like, adults, your monsters can come from inside of you. I mean, they can come from, like, at literally anywhere. And, like, you're saying it can be the environment. It can but for a kid, I think what the most painful thing is that it's like so often from, like, the things that should keep you safe.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yeah. That thing that you go to comfort you. Like, you're trying to get comfort by a monster, and you don't totally understand what that is actually doing to you, especially at, that age. So that was one of the cases that inspired Monday's not coming, and you're right. Like, that was a monster, like, within, like, a house.

And when you looked back on her history and her mental health and, like, the things that sort of, like, drag like, you could almost understand how it happened. Yeah. I'll never be able to fully understand it, but you could almost understand, like, the things that, like, brought her to that moment of, like, a snap. And that's what I wanted to highlight more than anything in Mondays Not Coming is to, like, sort of, like, understand how, like, a monster is formed, how all these elements, like, make a monster. Like, sometimes monsters are born, but sometimes they are made.

And there are a lot of things that made this monster.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: It's interesting because there are these monsters, but it's like these scary stories are helping you deal with the fact that there's these terrible things happening as a kid. But somehow, like, reading about them in this contained

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yeah.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Book that's gonna have, like, you know, some ending that ends in, like, something there's, you know, hope. Yes. When you think about the books that you've like, you'd said, you wish you had these books. There's, yes. You want the bridge.

You wanna have, like, horror and thrillers and things that are age appropriate and have, you know, black characters or diverse characters generally. But then there's, like, this other layer of also just having those books to think about terrible things in a way that is, like, age appropriate and not Stephen King, for example. You know? I mean, we see I don't know. I feel like everybody like you, Lamar Giles, anybody who's, like, writes horror, like, they loved it.

They read it early. Maybe every 11 year old should just read Stephen King.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I don't know.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: But I'm just saying, like so maybe that's a bad example. But you know what I mean.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Like Yeah. No. I I think do I do it purposefully? Absolutely. Do I make things like do I always wanna rip for the headlines?

Because I think it's important that especially for kids to know that these things are actually happening, that these aren't, like, you know, fictional tales I'm just making up. Because that was one of the first things that first happened when I started my career, especially I think maybe probably after Monday's not coming. I would get these, like, emails from, like, readers to be like, how can you come up with something like this? You know, you're deranged. And then I would immediately email them back the case and be like, actually, I'm not the one who's deranged.

But I think one of the best parts about doing something like this is it's memorable. I don't want kids to ever forget that these things happen because I want these lessons. I want, like, everything, the elements of these stories to really sit and live with them for a very long time. Because, ultimately, I'm hoping that it really stretches and builds their empathy muscles. I want them to remember the characters and remember that these people can be right next to you or across the street from you so that you ultimately when you get older and you have to vote and you have to be able to be a changemaker and helping to change policies, that you remember these stories because it wasn't just like some fictional character wasn't a fantasy.

It's something that actually happened. And I gave it to you in a package that is palatable. I let you experience that pain in a very safe bubble, but not everyone has that bubble. And so it's so much it's important. And I think about that when I think of, like, stories that I read when I was younger.

There is something to be said about stories that stay with you for life. Books should be core memories. You know, there's there's fluff and there's enjoyment, but there are some books that need to really, like, you know, hit home.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: As Tiffany says, some stories stay with us and become core memories, but others disappear, especially when the people at the center are treated as headlines or cautionary tales. It's something Tiffany started to notice while working on a show called Lockdown. Yes. That's the one. It's a show about real people and the way their lives were being shaped and reduced by the prison system around them.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I laugh now because of how youthful I was back then Yeah. Of just not understanding the significance of the show.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Yes. That show was like and I don't know what I mean, it just yeah. And it was it really was. And it's so interesting because the prison system is so broken, you know, but that was, like, everybody's very small window unless you have a person in your family in prison. You know?

Tiffany D. Jackson: Yeah. Unless you actually knew someone who was in prison and, you know, had to have the interaction with them or, you know, doing the traveling to go and see them because that was also, that's a chore at times for a lot of people and for a lot of families that can't afford it. But what was interesting because even though I worked very much behind the scenes of that series in the very beginnings of it, I didn't realize how much we were very much taking advantage of prisoners for other people's entertainment purposes. And that's what made me feel really, like, icky about it later.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Maybe that is, like, your what you've been doing is finding a different way to, like, observe and understand and empathize with people's pain, but in a way that is, like, meant to drive empathy and change, you know Yeah. Hearts and minds, really, or, like, how sort of, like, expand your experience versus just, entertainment value.

Tiffany D. Jackson: Right. And especially geared towards kids. Right? Because, you know, honestly, these lessons, like, it'll be like stepping into a comment section of, like, you know, a terrible post. And I'm not about to fight with with adults.

Like, I'm just not about to do that. You wanna you wanna all sit in your ignorance. You wanna swim there. That's fine. I'm gonna worry about these kids because these kids are ultimately the people that are going to change our world, to, you know, save us from ourselves.

And so they need to actually have the emotional intelligence. They need to read books that, like, give them that emotional intelligence and empathy and leads to some type of compassion and change. Like, ultimately, that's what I want more than anything. So it's not just about entertainment. It does entertain, but there is gonna be some shift in the way they will always think about people.

And I think that in humanizing, you know, what people go through, and I think that's incredibly important.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Tiffany's reading challenge will surprise no one. It's a celebration of African American horror and thrillers, genres she's often been questioned for writing.

Tiffany D. Jackson: I think oftentimes, and I just got this question thrown at me this past, like, weekend at a at Essence Fest actually, where it's a question of, why thrill like, why are you writing thrillers, or why are you writing horror? Like, you know, and what is the message you want and what is the hope that you wanna give kids? And I always, turn to them and say, like, you know, white thriller authors don't get these questions. Like, why am I expected to meet this, like, extra set of standards just because I'm a black author? Why can't I entertain and that simply be it?

Because I don't think there is one Stephen King book that's given me hope. Like, I just that's what I

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: was talking about before. It's like,

Tiffany D. Jackson: like, what has given me hope in, like, this horror novel? No one's ever turned to Danielle Steele and said, you know, why don't you write a non fiction book? Everyone turns to me and say that. And so I think that because of that fact, we don't have enough black horror writers and thrillers, you know, because they ultimately at one point, publishing didn't think that black people read these type of stories. And it's the abundance of us, the very, like, small unit of us that are, like, going out of our way to prove them wrong.

Ultimately, I wanna make sure that I give a shout out to a lot of the other black horror and thriller writers out there who are, like, changing the game and who are, like, stepping up to the line and really building a path and making a way for the next generation because we need people to pay more attention to that. My hope is that people will read more books with the intention of not just supporting, you know, black authors who are writing in this genre because this is very much a genre, but also in the hopes to, you know, inspire other people to write in this genre as well too.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: Tiffany's reading challenge includes authors like Lamar Giles, a previous guest on this show, and Alexis Henderson among many more. You can find her reading challenge and all past reading challenges at the readingculturepod.com. And this week's Beanstack featured librarian is once again Kelly Shelton, an elementary librarian for Garland ISD in Garland, Texas. She shares how building a strong reading culture goes beyond the library and into the hallways, the bus line, and even your students' plays.

Kelly Shelton: I think building the culture of reading happens in the library, but it also happens in the hallway. It happens in bus duty. It happens randomly. Like, oh, you're in line. You're doing such a great job in line.

This weekend, I was invited to my students' play, and it was a summer camp play. And so I was invited, and the kids were so excited to see me. And so just meeting them where they are at school, but also when you can go to a ballgame, when you can go to a play, when you can go to a concert and know that, yes, you are my student, and I cherish you as my student, but you are a whole person. And you singing and dancing in Aladdin, it's important for you that I see it, and so I will show up. I will show up for you and be in your life even if you are not my student anymore because you're important to me.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey: This has been the reading culture, and you've been listening to my conversation with Tiffany d Jackson. Again, I'm your host, Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and currently, I'm reading. Welcome to Glorious Tuga by Francesca Siegel and listening to Soundtrack by Jason Reynolds. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please take one minute to give us five stars on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. Your reviews really help the show get recommended to others, especially those who would otherwise not see it.

Every review, especially those really short written ones, help us. So thanks for doing that. This episode was produced by Mel Webb and Lower Street Media and script edited by Josiah Lamberto Egan. To learn more about how you can help grow your community's reading culture, you can check out all of our resources at beanstack.com. And remember to sign up for our newsletter at the readingculturepod.com forward slash newsletter for special offers and bonus content.

Thanks for listening and keep reading.